This spammer didn't believe he was a spammer and wanted his site removed from our database.
After explaining to him he was a spammer and would not be removed he decided to take revenge on us and a few other sites that listed him as spammers by spamming our links at the Wikipedia on 2004-10-05. This was reported by Mormegil on DiscussChongqed. More coverage of this made it to our front page which can now be found on the news page. Even more info can be found on Joe's blog, and Manni's blog.
Below is the original discussion (dates added) with the spammer that took place on Joe's user page:
We list sites that have spammed Wikis, Blogs, Guestbooks, and similar public webpages. Your site would not have been added if there wasn't some reason. In my email I list numberous examples of guestbook comment spam that points to your domain. – Joe 2004-10-04
I case our friend really did some spamming there should be a way to get off the list nevertheless. He should promise not to spam anymore (aware of the fact that for a second time there will be no mercy) and he should also help on despamming for a while. After that while his domain should be taken off the list. – MattisManzel 2004-10-04
I agree, Mattis, that there needs to be a way to get off the list. What you propose sounds reasonable, although I can't see how we could make spammers clean up spam or how we should check whether they did their clean-up work. In any case, telling us "I am not a spammer" when the web is full of spammed guest books with your URL all over them isn't going to be enough. – Manni 2004-10-04
In this guys case his spam is moslty, if not totally on guestbooks. There is no way to clean them unless you contact the site owner. And most of the owners don't clean them anymore since they are being hit so badly its pointless to them to try. I have emailed several sites with spammed guestbooks and I don't think any have done a thing about it, none have emailed back. Of the guestbooks I found his link at, a rough estimate of the spam to actual comment ratio was about 10:1. Guestbooks have always had little value but spammers make them useless. – Joe
It seems like that guy did a fair share of wiki spamming too. Here are some links that clearly show that he has been spamming (or somebody else did it for him):
He's also featured on the wikiblacklist and it sure wasn't us who put him on that one.
Before I think about getting him out of our db, I'd like to see him admit that he was spamming and I'd like to see him say that he'll never do it again. Seems this isn't going to happen any time soon.
– Manni 2004-10-05
A promise doesn't mean much, there has to be proof a spammer has stopped. But it will be hard to determine if they have actually stopped spamming. It takes Google a while to index new spam and anyway, we can't be checking on "reformed" spammers all the time. They could easily spam a whole lot before we notice them again. A solution that would seperate the spammers from the reformed spammers is we require them to add a page to their site admitting they spammed, promising they have stopped, and explain why webspam is bad with a link to us. If they are willing to do that its pretty likely they are a reformed spammer. Lior did some of that without us even asking. – Joe
Here my reply to Altin from Hukuki Net (also sent by email):
We have done further research and will not be removing your site from our list. We are a list of sites that have been spamming. You have been spamming and therefore will remain on the list. We are not the only antispam list that has included your site.
A large number of guestbooks have been spammed with your link, a small sample of which I included in my last email. You admitted to making some of those comments. Signing hundereds of guestbooks with stuff like "cool page" and including your link is obviously only meant to spread your link and improve your ranking in search engines.
Several discussions at the wikipedia confirm that they do consider you to have been spamming many of their wikis. Creating a law page is not necessary for all sites. Wikis are an open form, but the idea is to provide others useful on topic information. Not to spread your link around.
You may not agree with our definition of spam, but it is spam. If the links you post are meant to benefit you rather than the web community it is spam.
– Joe
OK. Mr. Hukuki has decided that he does not want to be removed from the database. Instead it seems he want to make it to the Hall Of Spammer fame on chongqed.org (something I'm going to have to create first). As Mormegil reported, he spammed the main help page of the Czech Wikipedia. Clicking the other languages link quickly revealed that he also spammed the German version, the Arab version, the English version, and possible many more that I'm going to check out and clean now. Thanks a lot Mr. Spammer and may your page rank rest in peace. – Manni
Here is his reply by email. I don't even really know what he is saying, much of it makes little sense.
I think wiki is not a open source. Everybody sing any guestbook naturally. (It's not forum, article or not valuable resource) And everybody add own link to the others links page. Is it spam. I am not a spammer. But I will send my opinion to the guestbooks and I will add my link to all directories ... When I sign a guestbook and add my link, the webmaster of this site's webmaster can sign my guestbook. There is no spam, naybe linkexchange, maybe it's a GUEST, frienship. By the way, All link exchanger are spammer? You are wrong Mr.Joseph. I will delete all my links to wikipedia and I will delete all of I added. Please write to the forums; Hukuki NET is a SPAMMER . I think you all be happy. And can speak Turkish, can I add all of 20000 cases to any wiki? It's 350 MB. on server. How can you read a case from wiki. Anybody who want to read a case or want to ask a question can visit the real source (such as my site). Wiki can not collect all of internet. Please do not reply. I accepted I am a spammer. Good chance and clear idea...
If he continues spamming links for chongqed.org he will surely see what chongqing can do. Just search emmss in Google to see what I mean. For extra annoying spammers we chongq them extra hard. Manni, I think its time for a blog update. And to summarize this discussion to the main news page. – Joe 2004-10-05